If you are a member of the Mennonite Brethren denomination and have no idea what is being taught to your new pastors in training, I suggest you read the new post over at December 1859. Menno is definitely rolling in his grave…
Mark Baker is assistant professor of mission and theology at Mennonite Brethren Biblical Seminary in Fresno, California. He is also the coauthor of a book called Recovering the Scandal of the Cross: Atonement in New Testament and Contemporary Contexts.
Mark Baker recently spoke at the Canadian Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches’ annual new pastors’ credentialing and orientation event April 30 – May 2, at MBBS ACTS Seminaries in Langley, B.C., Canada.
One of Mark Baker’s many essays has been published in a controversial but not highly popular book called Stricken by God? which was endorsed by Brian McLaren, as well as a few prominent Mennonites. Mark Baker’s essay appeared in Chapter 13 of this book. In the essay (which has been reviewed and found wanting, as you can read here), Mark Baker refers to his book Recovering the Scandal of the Cross which has also been reviewed and found to be severely lacking in truth. Click on the following links to read these biblical reviews:
http://www.grebeweb.com/linden/recovering_scandal_1.html
http://www.grebeweb.com/linden/recovering_scandal_2.html
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/04/scandal-cross.htm
A blog called Words of Grace (gracewords.blogspot.com) also mentions Mark Baker’s book:
Today the attacks on the cross are widely embraced. So statements like the following (from the worst book — Proclaiming the Scandal of the Cross — I’ve read so far) are considered acceptable:
“It will not do, therefore, to characterize the atonement as God’s punishment falling on Christ…or as Christ’s appeasement or persuasion of God.”
“…ethically, this model [penal substitution] has little to offer.…In the end, a penal satisfaction presentation of the atonement can too easily lead to a situation in which we might conclude that Jesus came to save us from God.”
“…[the] penal satisfaction theory…has significant problems and does not cohere well with biblical teaching on salvation.”
The misunderstanding of the meaning of penal substitution — that through His death, Christ bore our sin, pain and death, enduring and satisfying the wrath of God in our place — is evidenced throughout the various contributors to Proclaiming the Scandal.
-Book Review: Pierced for Our transgressions
http://gracewords.blogspot.com/2008/02/book-review-pierced-for-our.html
(In contrast to Mark Baker’s worst book ever read, the blog author of Words of Grace recommends instead a biblical book on the atonement called Pierced for our Transgressions which can be found here: http://www.piercedforourtransgressions.com/)
Here is another item of concern. Mark Baker has also participated on an emergent website called Emergent Village with emerging church leader Tony Jones which can be found here:
The Friday We Call “Good” — Atonement Contest Results
http://www.emergentvillage.com/weblog/the-friday-we-call-good-atonement-contest-results
Posted Mar 21, 08:45 PM
By Mark Baker and Tony Jones
This was a “Lent contest” in which…
“we asked people send in alternate metaphors for the atonement, different from the ones we often grew up with”
Mark Baker was one of the judges of the contest which was called Atonement Metaphors.
You can listen to Mark Baker talk to Tony Jones about the atonement here:
Thinking about the Atonement
http://www.emergentvillage.com/podcast/thinking-about-atonement
This is quite a shocking to see an MB Seminary professor in the same equation with Tony Jones and the emerging church, redefining the meaning of the atonement of Jesus Christ.
Mark Baker + Tony Jones x emergent village = bad news
Read about what Tony Jones believes and teaches here:
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/tonyjones.htm
Read about the emerging church here:
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/emergingchurch.htm
As shocking as all this might sound if you are a first time reader here, this is nothing new. Here is an older Roll Over Menno article about Mark Baker:
Mennonite Seminary Professor Debunks the Gospel
So here we have a SEMINARY PROFESSOR who is not only RE-EXAMINING the foundation of the gospel, but teaching ANOTHER GOSPEL to future pastors. As you can see, the fruit falling from the MBBS tree is looking very bad.
How long will poor Menno need to keep rolling over in his grave? Where are the Mennonites men with spines?
ROM Index: High
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Peter 2:1
The Eighteen Men over at December 1859 have given us some clues. Have you put in your guess yet? So far, four have given it their best shot.
The question is: Who wrote that about Jesus? Click on that question and submit your guess in the comment section.
[Hint: 1) It's the author of a soon to be published MB book. 2) It's someone who teaches at MBBS.]
Can anyone guess who it is that is soon to be exposed for being a wolf in sheeps clothing at the old MB Corral?
Do Mennonites doubt the power or existence of Satan and his demons? They promote an author who does.
The Blazer is Canadian Mennonite University’s magazine for alumni, supporters and people interested in Christian university education. In their spring 2008 issue (http://www.cmu.ca/pdfs/blazer_spring08.pdf) is an article called Demons, Lies and Shadows – The World Isn’t a Dangerous Place For Christians by Pierre Gilbert, Associate Professor of Biblical Studies and Theology at CMU.
Incidentally, Gilbert has written a book by the same title (Demons, Lies and Shadows) which was promoted in the May 2008 issue of the MB Herald (see here) and by Kindred Productions of the Canadian Conference of MB churches (see here).
In The Blazer’s article, Pierre Gilbert asks the following questions:
Does the devil exist? Can Satan or demons take control of human beings without their consent? Can demons occupy objects and inhabit certain places? Do we need people with special gifts to protect us from the influence of the devil and evil spirits?
In answering these questions, Gilbert may be correct in saying that “much of what we think we know about Satan comes from unverifiable sources.” Over a dozen of these sources where people get their views from are listed and described (movies, T.V. shows, computer games, books and the Third Wave Movement) before he concludes that “the Bible is the only assured source of data about the devil.” However, instead of going on to answer these questions from the Bible, Gilbert talks more about authors Peretti and LaHaye than scripture, which he says is “remarkably sober and guarded in regards to what it teaches about Satan and demons. On the origin of the demonic, a few passages allude to a rebellion that occurred at some point in the far past (2 Pet.2:4; Jude 6; Rev. 12:7-9).”
That’s it? A few passages? That is all the Bible has to say about the devil, his demons and how we can be protected from them?
Gilbert continues…
“On their power, surprisingly – and against all expectations – my study shows that the New Testament, particularly the Gospel of Mark and 1 Corinthians teaches that these creatures are virtually devoid of real power. Demonic beings derive their power not from themselves, but from the men and women upon whom they prey. The power of demons ultimately hinges on the belief system of the cultures in which they navigate.
(…)
The truth of the matter is this: We occupy a friendly universe! It takes a biblical worldview to accept this fact. We need in other words, a return to text and reason.”
What we definitely need is a return to the Bible, but contrary to what Gilbert may say, God’s Word is far from ‘guarded’ about the powers of darkness that Jesus Christ has saved us from. Neither does it teach that demons are powerless or that “we occupy a friendly universe.” As far as the subtitle of this articles goes (The world is a friendly place for Christians), well Mr. Gilbert…tell that to the martyrs and the persecuted church.
Here are just a few verses that Pierre Gilbert unfortunately missed in his Bible study regarding Satan, his dominion, his demons, and their power (and how the power of God is GREATER!)…
Ex. 7:11,12 - 11 But Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers; so the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. 12 For every man threw down his rod, and they became serpents.
Deut 32:17 - They sacrificed to demons, not to God,
To gods they did not know,
To new gods, new arrivals
That your fathers did not fear.
1 Samuel 16:14 - Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrorized him.
1 Samuel 18:10 - Now it came about on the next day that an evil spirit from God came mightily upon Saul, and he raved in the midst of the house, while David was playing the harp with his hand, as usual; and a spear was in Saul’s hand.
1 Chron. 21:1 - Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.
2 Chron. 18: 20 - Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’ The LORD said to him, ‘In what way?’ 21 So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the LORD said, ‘You shall persuade him and also prevail; go out and do so.’ 22 Therefore look! The LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these prophets of yours, and the LORD has declared disaster against you.”
Job 1:6-7 - 6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan[b] also came among them. 7 And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
So Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
Zech. 3:1-2 - 1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to oppose him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?”
Matt. 4:1 - - Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mark 1:13 - And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan, and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to Him.
Mark 1:34 - And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.
Mark 1:39 - And He was preaching in their synagogues throughout all Galilee, and casting out demons.
Mark 9:38 - Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.”
Matt. 4:10 - Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”
Mark 4:15 - And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts.
Acts 5:3 - But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?
Luke 4:41 - Demons also were coming out of many, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But rebuking them, He would not allow them to speak, because they knew Him to be the Christ.
Luke 8:30 - And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” And he said, ” Legion”; for many demons had entered him.
John 8:44 - “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”
Acts 19:11-20 - 11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. 13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.” 14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”
16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17 This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. 18 And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.
Acts 26:18 - …to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Romans 16:20 - And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
1 Cor. 10:21 - You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.
2 Cor. 2: 11 - lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices.
2 Cor. 4:3 - But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
2 Cor. 11 - 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
Eph. 2: 1-2 -1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
Eph. 3:10 - To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Eph 6:12 - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
1 Thess. 2:18 - Therefore we wanted to come to you—even I, Paul, time and again—but Satan hindered us.
2 Thess. 2:9 - The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
1 Tim. 4:1 - But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Tim. 5:15 - For some have already turned aside after Satan.
Col. 1:13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
Col. 2:15 - Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
James 2:19 - You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
1 Peter 3:22 - Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
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The following articles and links deal with the subject of spiritual warfare and the dangers for Christians living in the world today:
The Voice of the Martyrs
http://www.persecution.com/
Dangerous Spirituality
http://www.spiritual-research-network.com/dangerousspirituality.html
Exposing the dangers of Contemplative Spirituality, Spiritual Formation, unbiblical Emerging Church Practices, Eastern Mysticism…
http://www.spiritual-research-network.com/contemplativespirituality.html
THE DANGERS OF TELEVISION
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/dangers_of_television.html
What does the Bible say about spiritual warfare?
http://www.gotquestions.org/spiritual-warfare.html
Spiritual Warfare
Biblical Binding and Loosing
http://www.letusreason.org/pent13.htm
Spiritual Warfare
http://www.raystedman.org/warfare/warfare1.html
How many post-modern Mennonites who have grown up in the MB denomination realize that the Mennonite Brethren church began because of an awakening and revival of spiritual life in the 1800’s?
(…) 2. The Beginning of the Mennonite Brethren Church. As the groups of Brethren increased and became more united, they raised objections to certain practices and inconsistencies of conduct on the part of members of the church and insisted on church discipline. Since this was not carried out as they believed that it should be done, they requested that communion service be administered to them separately. This the church elders declined to do. Thereupon a group of the Brethren met in December 1859 and held a communion service among themselves. This event soon became known and caused a great turmoil in the church. Some of the Brethren were called before the church and were asked to apologize and to promise that they would refrain from this in the future. They, however, did not concede to this, but rather justified their action and claimed Scriptural ground for the step they had taken. Thereupon six members of the Gnadenfeld church were asked to withdraw from the congregation.
On 6 January 1860, a number of the Brethren met in the village of Elisabeththal, Molotschna, and took steps to form a separate church. They drew up a written statement addressed to the elders of the church, in which they declared themselves an independent church and stated their reasons for taking this step. They also stated their intention to remain within the Mennonite brotherhood of the settlement. This document was signed by 18 men. This event is regarded as the beginning of the Mennonite Brethren Church, and the 18 men as constituting the first congregation. (…)
Please read more about this here:
Mennonite Brethren Church
http://www.gameo.org/encyclopedia/encyclopedia/contents/M4639ME.html
Who are the true “brethren” in Christ? Those who deny the atonement and enter into complacency and compromise with the spirituality of this world? Or those who love Jesus and His Word enough to remain true to Him? Is it time for repentance and personal revival in the Mennonite Brethren church and seminary?
If you don’t think so, browse the following articles on this blog and read about what is making Menno Simons roll over in his grave.
See how far the Mennonite Brethren have departed from their beginnings and their faithfulness to God…
The ‘new old spirituality’ of the US Mennonite Brethren
Contemplative Mennonite Retreats
Centering Prayer and Mennonites
More Mystics in the Mennonite Seminary
MB Herald promotes book that challenges the sacrificial atonement of Christ
It’s pretty simple. This site is dedicated to all of today’s post modern Mennonites who are causing their forefather and founder, Menno Simons, to roll over in his grave.
All Mennonites are welcome, but be warned, reading here may wake some of you up.
“And go, get thee to them of the captivity, unto the children of thy people, and speak unto them, and tell them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear.”
Ezekiel 3:11
*What is the ROM Index? See here.
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