Roll Over Menno

In a recent lecture series at Fresno Pacific University this spring, John Toews (who teaches biblical studies at both Fresno University and MB Biblical Seminary) challenged the students to discover with him what it means to live with allegiance to Christ alone.

We can only pray that the students took this message to heart.

They probably do not know that MBBS has accepted a significant amount of money from Lilly Endowment (http://www.mbseminary.edu/ministryquest/links). See why that might be a problem here:
Lilly, Money and Mennonites
http://rollovermenno.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/lilly-money-and-mennonites/

They probably don’t know that MBBS is teaching students to do the Ignatius Examen. Even if they do, they probably don’t know what could be wrong with that. See where Ministry Quest is teaching the Ignatius Examen to Ministry Quest students here:
http://www.mbseminary.edu/ministryquest/pm/practicing-ignatian-examen

Do they tell them that Ignatius was the founder of the Jesuits, whose goal was to convert Protestants back to Rome? (See A Tale of Two Men, a short comparison of Ignatius Loyola and Menno Simons). What are the Mennonites, whose founder renounced the church of Rome, doing teaching their students the meditation techniques of Ignatius Loyola?

The students probably have no idea about the Willow Creek conference at MBBS this summer or what could possibly be wrong with that. (Willow Creek Conference at MBBS: http://www.mbseminary.edu/fresno/courses/PM.792WCC)

The conference, according to the MB Seminary website, is to be introduced by their new faculty member, Corey Siebel, who was recently hired for his strengths which include “an engaging presence that connects well to young leaders, a broad understanding of contemporary church culture, and experience with contextual learning.” He is most likely a very nice young man, but he shouldn’t be introducing Willow Creek methods of man or contemplative spiritual formation to students. To see what the possible problem is regarding Willow Creek and the kind of spiritual formation they promote, see here. To see the kind of heretics Willow Creek invites in to speak, see here:
Lessen focus on eternity, McLaren says at Willow Creek student ministries conference
http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=27867&ref=BPNews-RSSFeed0418

Some may want to read more on the subject of the spirituality which has entered MBBS here:
More Mystics in the Mennonite Seminary
http://rollovermenno.wordpress.com/2007/08/15/20/

It looks like the problem with MBBS is the gradual acceptance of post-modern views, mysticism and contemplative spirituality. When you fall towards something and embrace it, you also fall away from where you were.

This is a problem too big to ignore. But how does one go about doing anything about it? The following is the conclusion of a teaching by Jacob Prasch of Moriel Ministries. In it he addresses the seriousness of standing for the truth:

“Jonathan knew David was right. He knew David was commissioned by God, that he was innocent and righteous. Jonathan knew his father’s house had gone wrong. He knew his father was corrupt. He knew the land was being over run, and they were losing everything because of his father’s house. But Jonathan could not break with his father. There are people out there today that know things are wrong, but they cannot leave. Those people who attach themselves to Saul, and cannot leave, will die on Mount Gilboa. That will be the most difficult thing to face. There are people whom you know and love, who are fed up with what is going on, who can see all this error for what it is. But they do not have the courage of their convictions.

Which house will you join? Which house are you going to join? You will be of the house of Saul or the house of David. You will have to come into the wilderness, where God is building it. You have to expect that the house of Saul is going to hate you and persecute you. You have to understand that you cannot wear Saul’s armor. You will have to understand that these people are still our brethren, for better or worse.

Touch not God’s anointed. You can tell the truth about them, but only God can remove them. We have to endure the pain and anguish that David experienced over Jonathan. A time will come when the house of Saul will fall. How much longer can it keep going? It lurches from one gimmick to another, one trend to another, one line of hype to another. David’s house will stand. It will stand at Hebron, the place of fellowship, and then others will join themselves to it. When that day comes, the Lord will give the victory over the Philistines, the Amalekites, the Canaanites, Islam, New Age, Freemasonry, Rome, and homosexual lobbying. The house of David or the house of Saul? There is plenty of room in both. The choice is yours. If you want to join the house of David, now is your opportunity.”

- House of David : House of Saul by Jacob Prasch (read the entire teaching here)

Surely there are those who can see that these are only some examples of what is going on…

-compromise
-ecumenism
-dialogue over things that God has already posted a “No Dialogue” sign over
-be contemporary and contextualize the gospel…

Oh, they may disguise it with nice words like community, understanding, peace and non-violence, but is it God’s truth? For example, does God display his power through those who have strengths, connections and an engaging presence, or does he raise up those who are contrite and humble in spirit for His glory? Like David, or like Moses or Paul, none of whom would have fit the resume requirements for today’s seminary faculty positions. One can only wonder if the seminary students or faculty members listening to the lecture by Mr. Toews really understood what a timely word it was he gave…

“The Politics of Romans” was the title of Toews’ first lecture. Claiming that the text of Romans is profoundly political as well as theological, he compared examples of Paul’s language with that of the imperial language of the day; showing how words meant for the emperor were now being ascribed to Christ. According to Toew’s research, Paul was countering imperial ideology in order to build up house church members in Rome as followers of Messiah Jesus, a new radical community, and in the process committing treason.”

Paul paid a price to follow Jesus. So did the believers in the early church. As we watch seminaries like MBBS embrace new emerging ideas and fall away from the truth in God’s Word, is there any better time than now for some Mennonites, whose hearts are broken because of what they are seeing, to answer God’s calling, counter the post-modern lies with His strength, and take a stand for the gospel of Jesus Christ?

In the latest MB Herald is a review by Kevin Moore (pastor of Jamestown Church, Toronto) of a book called Mennonites dialogue on same-sex - STUMBLING TOWARD A GENUINE CONVERSATION ON HOMOSEXUALITY, a compilation of articles by Michael A. King. One of several comments on the back of this book, which can be viewed at amazon.com (here), says “God saves some of us to embrace our sexuality. God saves others to seek a different sexuality. For some of us, attempts to change can lead to hell, separating us from God. For others, change can bring a deeper relationship with God.”

Mentioned in the MB Herald book review is the following quote from Meister Eckhart by a pastor (named Nisly) whose credentials were suspended by the Pacific Northwest Mennonite Conference when he decided to perform a same-sex wedding ceremony:

“True followers of Jesus are absurdly happy, totally fearless, and almost always in trouble.”!

While it is true that Christians can expect persecution and trials, is this the sort of trouble that the Bible tells us to expect? Is Mr. Nisly’s situation a godly example of being in trouble for fearlessness while defending the truth in the Bible?

Before we move on, let’s take a look at who pastor Nisly quoted:

Who is Meister Eckhart?

Meister Eckhart

Eckhart, a Dominican monk who lived in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, ranks among the great Roman Catholic mystics such as Teresa of Ávila, John of the Cross, and Julian of Norwich. Toward the end of his life Eckhart was charged (and found guilty after his death in 1327), with heresy for his mystical assertions which the Catholic Church determined had bled over into pantheism. Eckhart “believed that in every human soul there is something of the very nature of God. Here it is that the human soul meets God…. [His] doctrine of the human soul has lasted to the present, and is reaffirmed whenever one speaks of a Divine Spark within each of us.”[1] Eckhart made statements such as these, “Henceforth I shall not speak about the soul, for she has lost her name yonder in the oneness of divine essence. There she is no more called soul: she is called infinite being.” And, “She plunges into the bottomless well of the divine nature and becomes one with God that she herself would say that she is God.” Such statements not only bothered the Medieval Church but some more modern researchers have found agreements in Eckhart’s philosophy with all the major points of Hindu mystics.[2] Other scholars are not so certain about Eckhart’s pantheism but his statements certainly leave the door open for such interpretations. Yet Eckhart is considered to be one of the most important Christian mystics of the Middle Ages and both ancient and modern mysticism reflect his views. Eckhart’s Divine Spark corresponds almost directly with the teachings of Eastern Mysticism, with the difference that the Divine Spark in Christian Mysticism is defined as God who resides in every human being. –Gary Gilley, Mysticism Part 2
(http://www.svchapel.org/Resources/Articles/read_articles.asp?ID=107)

Moving on, the MB Herald article also brings to light the following questions (although readers of the book will be left in the dark):

“No definitive answers are reached, no grand proclamations emanate from its pages. It truly is a dialogue, a dialogue that needs to happen in the church in general, and among Mennonites in particular. Listen to the wonderfully provocative questions…

What if the presence of gays and lesbians in the church is neither a symptom of the church’s apostasy nor a right based on an unchangeable orientation but rather a gift of God to be received with gratitude? What if the Mennonite church sought to be faithful rather than effective? What if it discovered with joy the gifts that it has been rejecting? What if this book helped the church remember the dialogue it has said again and again we are all called to have, helped the church remember the people with whom we are called to be in dialogue, or helped us all discover the gifts of God, the grace of God, which we in the Mennonite church have all too often excluded? What if God requires mercy, not sacrifice?”

Here are some other questions to bring to light regarding this book and the MB Herald’s review:

Are the Mennonites opening Pandora’s box by getting involved in this dialogue?
Exactly why does this dialogue need to happen among Mennonites in particular?
Regardless of the issue, is there ever an option to ‘dialogue’ when it comes to truth that is found in God’s Word?
Would the truth in God’s Word shed light on the outcome of this dialogue? (For example, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Leviticus 18:22, or Romans 1:18-32)

Is Menno Simons rolling over in his grave?

Recommended ROM reading:

Reinventing the World
Part 2 of 3:
The Mind-Changing Dialectic Process
Training the masses to think collectively and serve a Greater Whole
by Berit Kjos
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/Reinventing2.htm

Deceived by the Dialectic Process
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brainwashing/dialectic.htm

Biblical Truth versus Consensus Thinking
http://www.crossroad.to/charts/consensus.htm

Related reading:

How same-sex marriage points to the end of the world by Janet Folger

Last month, the floor of one of the largest Mennonite churches in Abbotsford, B.C. (Central Heights) caved in.

‘Angels’ prevented deaths, more injuries: concert-goer
Two remain in hospital after church floor collapse at Abbotsford concert
-Vancouver Sun

One of the concert-goers who survived a floor collapse at a Christian rock concert in Abbotsford Friday night said “God’s angels” ensured there weren’t more serious injuries and even deaths.

Bethany Blois was jumping up and down to the music of Starfield with hundreds of other young people at Central Heights church when she “felt the ground move.

“We were just jumping, and then it kind of felt like we were on a trampoline,” Blois told The Vancouver Sun in an interview outside the Mennonite church a day after dozens of people were hospitalized after a 600-square-foot area of the floor caved in….

Read it here:
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=c4122bf6-63df-4060-bd12-affa6e517347&k=46105

Video:

Video of band playing minutes before floor collapsed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXPc334h5bM

After the floor collapsed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrU_uAYaBKc&feature=related

First hand account:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOqR_mlfMyk&feature=related

The Mennonite Brethren church is now facing a lawsuit:

Church sued for floor collapse
http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_valley/abbynews/news/18746159.html

UPDATE: JULY, 2008
Some good news inspite of the unecessary tragedy:

Healing continues following church floor collapse
http://www.canadianchristianity.com/bc/bccn/0708/08healing.html

In the May 2008 Mennonite Brethren Herald is a favourable review [on page 38] of a fiction book called The Shack (by William P. Young). The review concludes with this paragraph:

“Similar to writings by Tony Campolo, Brian McLaren, Donald Miller and Rob Bell, Young’s emphasis is not on afterlife, but on bringing about the kingdom of God right where we live, by obeying the New Testament commandment: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself.”

While it is somewhat surprisiing that the writer of this review, a retired school teacher/farmer/Mennonite, would be reading and promoting the dominionism theology of emerging church authors Campolo, McLaren, Miller and Bell, it is even more dismaying that the MB Herald would allow this book to be promoted.

The Shack, which is endorsed by Michael W. Smith and Eugene Petersen, is all about the God-head. Christians are saying it’s ‘amazing’ and ‘life changing’ because now they understand the Trinity. But is it a correct understanding? Or is it heretical doctrine?

Read the following reviews of The Shack and decide for yourself:

The Shack: Father-goddess Rising by John Lanagan
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=1065&more=1&c=1

Shaky Shack
Posted by Don Veinot
http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/89/shaky-shack

The Shack Book by Hutleys Happenings
http://hutleyshappenings.blogspot.com/2008/01/shack-book.html

“The Shack” by William P. Young – Tim Challies Review
http://www.challies.com/archives/book-reviews/the-shack-by-william-p-young.php

Deceived by a counterfeit “Jesus”
The twisted “truths” of The Shack & A Course in Miracles -By Berit Kjos
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/08/shack.htm

Whats Wrong With The Shack Book?
http://www.squidoo.com/TheShackBook

It’s just a novel…
http://www.squidoo.com/ShackHeresy

In a 700 Club interview, William P Young talked about how we as Christians have bad theology and preconceptions about God that make us feel we can’t run to our Father when we are in pain, and so this is why he wrote this book. (This interview can be watched on youtube here.) But is the theology of William P. Young correct? His theology says that being a Jesus follower does not mean that He has come to give us the Holy Spirit to help us be like Him. Young says following Jesus is not trying to be like Him, but allowing Him to be Himself in the uniqueness of our personhood. The core question, according to Paul Young, is: is God good and is He involved?

Is this biblically sound?

Here is another youtube video; an expose on The Shack that reveals its heresy:

The Shack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK65Jfny70Y&feature=related

Come on Mennonites! Don’t make Menno roll over in his grave!

***UPDATE: The Shack is now promoted by the Canadian Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches via Kindred Productions here:
https://www.kindredproductions.com/store/?section=24&ID=408

NEW: See new review of The Shack at Herescope by Pastor Larry DeBruyn here:
http://herescope.blogspot.com/2008/07/shack-elousia-mythical-mystical-black.html

NEW article on the publisher of The Shack, Wayne Jacobsen, here:

The Shack’s Wayne Jacobsen Resonate with Contemplative and Emerging Writers
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=1143&more=1&c=1

The following article fits well with the concerns of Roll Over Menno:

Why Evangelicals are Returning to Rome
The Abandonment of Sola Scriptura as a Formal Principle
By Bob DeWaay

The February 2008 edition of Christianity Today ran a cover story about evangelicals looking to the ancient Roman Catholic Church in order to find beliefs and practices.1 What was shocking about the article was that both the author of the article and the senior managing editor of CT claim that this trip back to Rome is a good thing. Says Mark Galli the editor, “While the ancient church has captivated the evangelical imagination for some time, it hasn’t been until recently that it’s become an accepted fixture of the evangelical landscape. And this is for the good.”2 Chris Armstrong, the author of the article who promotes the trip back to the ancient church, claims that because the movement is led by such persons as “Dallas Willard, Richard Foster, and living and practicing monks and nuns,” that therefore, “they are receiving good guidance on this road from wise teachers.” This he claims shows that, “Christ is guiding the process.”3

Apparently, contemporary evangelicals have forgotten that sola scriptura (scripture alone) was the formal principle of the Reformation. Teachings and practices that could not be justified from Scripture were rejected on that principle. To endorse a trip back to these practices of ancient Roman Catholicism is to reject the principle of sola scriptura being the normative authority for the beliefs and practices of the church. In this article I will explore how modern evangelicalism has compromised the principle of sola scriptura and thus paved smoothly the road back to Rome. [...]

The rest of this excellent article can be found at this link:
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue105.htm