“Gathering 2008″ Alert
This July, the Canadian Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches will be having a convention called “Gathering 2008”. This event will feature speakers Bruxy Cavey, Patrice Nagant and Eric Wingender.
While researching the upcoming “Gathering,” Roll Over Menno was alerted to some information that should alarm all those concerned about the influence of contemplative spiritual formation and ecumenism in the Mennonite Brethren Conference.
Here is the article:
Canadian MB Conference-Gathering 2008-Speaker Bruxy Cavey’s Dangerous Teachings and Promotions
http://abideinthedoctrineofchrist.blogspot.com/2008/04/canadian-mb-conference-gathering-2008.html
According to the research done by this very alert blogger, here are some things that upcoming conference speaker Bruxy Cavey of The Meeting House has been positively promoting:
-silence
-”centering”
-Richard Foster
-Thomas Keating
-Eugene Peterson
-Dallas Willard
-the “thin space”
-Teresa of Avila
-Sacred Pathways by Gary Thomas
-sacred spaces
-lectio divina
-prayer of examen
-Ruth Haley Barton
ROM highly recommends that the entire article be read to understand why this should alarm anyone belonging to the Canadian Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches.
ROM Index: High
Readers of this site should know that sometimes a Christian with a single-hearted agenda can, in their passion, miss the forest for the trees. The warning about my teaching is a fine example.
First of all, yes, I have conducted an online interview with other pastors who believed that there could be value in times of silence and contemplative prayer. Is it not possible that we can learn something of value from someone in one area even if there are things in other areas of doctrine that we would disagree about? And so, while we may not all agree on everything taught by some people interviewed or referenced, I believe truth was still the priority of the conversation. Certainly the Apostle Paul shows us the ability to sift through error to find truth in Acts 17. In this site’s desire to sift through truth to find error, please be cautious about undue and misleading slander to fellow brothers and sisters.
Secondly, with this one podcast in the background, the “alert blogger” that is positively promoted at this site goes on to misrepresent me completely regarding my stand against non-Christian authors like Deepak Chopra and Eckhart Tolle (see link provided to the source blog). This is most grievous. Recently, in two sermons embedded in the middle of an exegetical series on Colossians which has focussed on the unmatched supremacy of Christ, I have pointed out how the currently popular teachings of people like Chopra and Tolle are at odds with Christian doctrine and to be rejected. That has clearly been my main point for anyone with ears to hear. My side-bar comment that (paraphrased) “sure, we may find aspects of truth in their teaching, as we can in anyone’s teaching, but that doesn’t mean we should swallow their entire message” is simply a point of fact meant to add to the warning, not the main thrust of what I was saying. It is disheartening to me and disingenuous for readers to be exposed to this sloppy, agenda-driven, one-ear-open review that has hinted at me teaching the exact opposite of what I was actually saying.
I would be happy to talk more about this in person at GATHERING 08 with anyone who is interested to move toward biblical truth in a biblical fashion.
PS: I have tried to post a response at the original blogger’s site, but cannot figure out how to do that there. If anyone knows Jenna, the original blogger, please encourage her to contact me (bruxy@theendofreligion.org). Thank you.
Mr. Cavey,
I believe the “alert blogger” was most humble in the delivery of her concern regarding these things, and is merely questioning why she heard you say that you simply differ with them at their core beliefs, and that they can offer us some good techniques, when the truth is, they have nothing at all to offer us as their core belief is teaching New Age concepts and another Jesus.
About your warning:
“sure, we may find aspects of truth in their teaching, as we can in anyone’s teaching, but that doesn’t mean we should swallow their entire message”
That doesn’t sound much like a warning. Why learn anything from them at all?
Regarding learning silence and contemplative prayer from those who have different doctrine while believing that truth is the priority …this is the beginning of compromise which leads to a very wide road. You know what Jesus said about that.
Remember, there is real cheese in every rat trap. A very good example of one who got caught in the contemplative trap is Ruth Haley Barton, who was also mentioned in your interview. You can read what happened to her at this link: http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/ruthhaleybarton.htm
You mention Paul sifting thought error to find truth…
In Acts 17 we read that he
-REASONED with them out of the scriptures
-PREACHED that Jesus Christ suffered and rose from the dead
-DISPUTED in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
-in a city given to idols He DECLARED the unknown God and implored them to seek the Lord who commends all men everywhere to repent as He will judge the world in righteousness.
Paul did not interview and listen to these people and learn something of value from them. Rather, his spirit was being provoked within him as he was observing the city full of idols. In other words, when we meet (or interview) someone who has said they have met the “real” Jesus through contemplative practice and Roman Catholicism, instead of finding some truth in their teaching and learning from them, we must REASON with them from the scriptures that Catholicism is a religion of idolatry (icons, Mary) and that religious practices will not bring us close to Jesus, only repenting and believing in His death and resurrection will. We must PREACH Christ - that we are only brought near by His blood (But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Ephesians 2:13). We should be so concerned about the teachings of contemplative prayer and ecumenism that we speak out like Paul and DISPUTE these things, not sit idly by and learn from these practices because there is ‘some truth’ to them. Therefore, if truth is your priority, as you have said, then you need to DECLARE it.
Also, don’t forget that by interviewing people who praise Thomas Merton and Henri Nouwen for “bridging the gap”, and not speaking out, you are condoning and promoting Merton and Nouwen as well. This ‘gap’ they are bridging is the gap between Eastern religions and the West.
Thomas Merton said:
“I see no contradiction between Buddhism and Christianity … I intend to become as good a Buddhist as I can.”
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/merton.htm
Henri Nouwen said:
“Today I personally believe that while Jesus came to open the door to God’s house, all human beings can walk through that door, whether they know about Jesus or not. Today I see it as my call to help every person claim his or her own way to God.”
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/nouwen.htm
We should all be very concerned at how many churches and Christian institutions are welcoming Merton, Nouwen and contemplative spirituality. How much more so should a pastor’s spirit be provoked within him when he hears that idolatrous religions are bridging the gap and entering not only mainstream Christianity, but into his very own denomination and church? The only one here who is missing the forest for the trees is the one who gives up the whole truth for a half truth and misses the mark.
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6
He is the only one we need to praise for bridging a gap…and that is the gap between death and eternal life.
Re Bruxy Cavey:
You might want to read a book Review of Mr. Cavey’s book “The End of Religion” which is posted here:
http://www.svchapel.org/Resources/BookReviews/book_reviews.asp?ID=374
Thank you, that is a good source.
Here is another relevant link:
RESPONDING TO THE GAY MARRIAGE DEBATE By Bruxy Cavey, Teaching Pastor @ THE MEETING HOUSE
http://www.listenuptv.com/programs/050213samesex.shtml#responding
“…As a “third way” church, we at The Meeting House want to ask the question, is it possible to disagree with people and still respect and even embrace them? I believe this is possible, and the key is to ask Bible-embracing Christians to use Jesus as their model of how to interpret and live out these teachings. When Christians follow Jesus rather than use the Bible to prop up their own conservative agendas, everything changes.
We consider The Meeting House a queer-positive church. We do not preach that people must change their sexual orientation in order to follow Jesus. Instead, we invite all people to change their spiritual orientation, toward God and their fellow human beings….”
Thank you for your thoughts “ROM”. I’ve not heard of this site before - do you have a name or personal identity? I’m sorry I cannot find it.
This site is fascinating. First of all, I’m not sure what you see as wrong with our church stance on homosexuality. We simply call gay Christians to live a celibate life in dedication to Christ. Is this not biblical? By quoting only a portion of my writing, you leave the impression that we do not call Christians, gay or straight, to live holy lives. It seems to me that you are trying to (or not trying very hard not to) misrepresent my goals and my heart on this site. You have not approached me personally for any clarification on any point. Why are you taking this approach? It seems far from biblical.
Please understand, it is just not a biblical approach to rooting out heresy to judge a Christian teacher based upon who he quotes. To listen for whom someone quotes and then investigate other teachings taught by the person quoted and then try to accuse the original minister of supporting everything the other people teach is just not wisdom in action. Paul certainly did not support all of the teaching of Epimenides and Artus, but he did quote from them to make his point to his pagan audience in Acts 17. Would Paul’s evangelistic teaching be rated “high” on your ROM index?
When appearing before the Areopagus (Acts 17:22-34), Paul does not compromise the Gospel in any way, yet he does translate the Gospel into their context, reasoning out of their pagan sources of authority. Paul demonstrates wisdom without compromise. He never quotes Scripture (at least not in what is recorded here), since the Hebrew Scriptures would not be a source of authority to pagan Greeks. But Paul does quote their own pagan poets and philosophers (v. 28). When Epimenides first said “in him we live and move and have our being” and Aratus said “we are his children”, they were certainly not speaking of the God of Scripture, but of Zeus. Paul uses their pagan teachings to point the way to Jesus. He takes every thought captive and brings it into submission to the cause of Christ. This is amazing, insightful, and powerful. But we cannot and should not judge Paul’s theology based on a study of the writings of Epimenides and Artrus. Paul was not validating everything they taught just because he quoted them. Likewise, if I quote from someone because I think that they have made a good point on one issue, it would be wrong of you to assume that I validate everything else that person teaches. This is not the way of Christ.
When I say “sure, we may find aspects of truth in their teaching, as we can in anyone’s teaching, but that doesn’t mean we should swallow their entire message”, I am not encouraging people to study pagan philosophy (although Paul apparently did). Rather I am speaking to people who are ALREADY reading people like Chopra and Tolle (yes, our people invite their non-Christian friends to church to hear the Gospel). These people say “But Bruxy, some of the things I am learning from these authors are helping me”. Rather than try to prove that absolutely everything any one teacher says is false (what would be the odds of everything anyone says being false), I can acknowledge that there may be some things they say that are helpful, but that finding some random truth is not an excuse to swallow everything a particular author teaches.
It seems to me that you are not actually trying to understand me or communicate with me, but are taking more delight in assuming the worst about me. I am easy to reach. You have my email address. If that is cumbersome I am happy to give out my phone number. Or again, if you are attending GATHERING 08, I would be happy to talk in person. I believe this would honour God and adhere to Scripture.
Grace & Peace,
Bruxy
I find the following information from Lighthouse Trails http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=1043&more=1&c=1
to be very revealing regarding the agenda of the Roman Catholic Church in bringing Eastern style meditation first of all to the Roman Catholics, and then into the evangelical churches. The information Lighthouse Trails cites is from the MID website. (I apologize if the links don’t work properly, as I’m not sure how to add them in this format. You may have to copy and paste them if you want to follow them):
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In 1977, the Monastic Interreligious Dialogue (MID) was formed for the purpose of bringing Eastern-style mysticism to the forefront of Catholicism and eventually traditional Christianity.1 The MID was sanctioned by and propagated by head authorities in the Catholic church as is stated in one report:
“It should be brought to the attention of monastic communities that this effort of meeting and understanding Eastern religions is made at the express and repeated request of the Roman authorities.” 2
Further, the objective of this dialogue effort was made very clear:
“The methods of concentration [i.e., mantra meditation] used in other religious traditions can be useful for removing obstacles to a deep contact with God [i.e., contemplative]. They can give a better understanding of the oneness of Christ as expressed in the various traditions and contribute to the formation of a new world religious culture. They can also be helpful in the development of certain potencies in the individual, for there are some Zen-Hindu-Sufi-etc. dimensions in each heart.”
Initiatives proposed included “infiltrat[ing] the media,” “East-West dialogue,” providing retreats in monasteries, and so forth. By offering the “proper environment for Christian meditation, alone or in a group, using Eastern methods … the Christian contemplative tradition [can be] accessible to all people.3
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I cannot find anywhere in Scripture that we are supposed to adopt the techniques of false religions. In fact, there are many places that warn us not to adopt their practices. We worship and serve a different God who has His own ways and means of providing and nurturing a relationship with Him that are distinct from those who worship false gods. When we begin adding heathen techniques to the Christian tradition the lines between Christianity and false religions become blurred and you can no longer rightfully call it Christianity. The result is a hybrid. The OT warns not to mix materials and animals of different types as a picture of the importance of the purity of God’s ways which we are to maintain. The Roman Catholic church has been at the forefront of promoting this movement that encourages people to adopt heathen practices. Are we so naive that we cannot see that there really is an agenda here and who is ultimately behind it? The techniques being promoted by the Roman Catholic church and now the evangelical churches have been disguised by replacing the Eastern terms with Christian ones. You can call a Ouija board a Bible Alphabet board, but it is still an instrument of divination, and divination is forbidden in scripture. You can call the meditation techniques of the Eastern religions “contemplative prayer”, but it is still a method that is completely unscriptural. Satan is attempting to redefine common biblical terms, twisting their meaning, and thereby deceiving Christians into thinking these things are biblical.
In Cavey’s roundtable discussion “Enjoy the Silence”, the examples of Christ spending times alone to be with His Father are used as examples for the type of practices promoted by those who are pro-contemplative. He has misused these passages to validate practices that are unscriptural, thereby wrongly dividing the word of truth. NOT ONCE did Cavey disagree with or contradict what was being said in this discussion. There was no word of warning to those in the discussion or to listeners. This discussion is posted on The Meeting House website for those who are under his pastoral leadership to hear, and the message that comes across is that the contemplative pathway is a good way to connect with God and which he endorses by providing it on his website.
The contemplative pathway is one which leads away from or around the cross. There is only one way to have a relationship with God and that is through Christ and His redemptive work on the cross. If you examine the statements of those who stay on the contemplative pathway, you will find that they end up denying the cross or merely giving it lip-service and denying its power. The methods or techniques used by contemplatives eventually lead to the belief that Christ is in ALL people, not just those who come to the cross. The Christ they are encountering is not the Christ of Scripture, the Son of God. It is a demonic, lying spirit appearing as an angel of light. I personally began on this path myself several years ago, and I thank God for opening my eyes to this deception, and have repented of my involvement with it. Many, many Christians are being deceived by this movement as it is very spiritually appealing (after all, who doesn’t want to get closer to God?), but in truth, it leads away from Him. I have concluded that this may very well be the great “falling away” that is prophesied by Christ Himself regarding the last days. Repentance of my love of the world and its ways is what brought me closer to God. God has given me a new love for His Word and a new desire to obey Him and fulfill the great commission because of my repentance.
The promotion of the contemplative pathway by the MB Conference through its publications and seminary is one of the primary reasons that my husband and I have chosen to withdraw our membership from it. This has been a sad and difficult decision which we have not taken lightly, as we are fourth generation members, and have been members of our particular MB Church for nearly 30 years. We see those who promote this as enemies of the cross, wolves in sheep’s clothing who have infiltrated the fold. Those who are confused by this trend within the MB Conference need to carefully examine the roots, fruits and shoots of the movement, testing all things by the standard of God’s Word. There is also a lot of information on the web exposing this deception, and it pays to do some research. The Lighthouse Trails Research website is a great place to find well-documented articles on this topic.
Bruxy, you need to consider the spiritual consequences of this movement if you are wrong about it. You are responsible for leading a great number of people who look up to you for spiritual guidance. Are you prepared to come before God in humility and ask Him to show you the truth about this matter? Are you prepared to repent of your promotion of heathen practices? Satan is a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. His desire is to deceive the elect. I sincerely hope you will not be part of his menu. As a pastor, you have a lot of influence, and you need to consider the consequences of leading people down a pathway that is unscriptural and leads away from the cross. A good place to start is to examine the biblical definition of prayer and meditation in the original languages. These things are not the same as contemplatives like the desert fathers, Teresa of Avila, Merton, Keating, and other mystics are promoting, and are Eastern, mystical and heathen in origin. May God find you faithful to His Word.
Contemplative prayer is a tree in this forest that is infested with disease and needs to be dealt with aggressively. The infection is spreading rapidly, and we must warn others of the danger so they can get out of the way. In God’s economy love includes speaking the truth and warning others of spiritual error.
PS: Jenna is my daughter, by the way, and I commend her for her love of the truth and her willingness to “stick out her neck” by exposing this false teaching. She is far from being “sloppy, agenda-driven and one-eared”. She is a hard-working university student in the midst of writing finals, and is unlikely to find the time right now to respond to Bruxy even if he had been able to post a comment on her site. She and I have discussed this matter extensively and see eye-to-eye on this topic. We have both been studying this trend for approximately two years. I reiterate that I was once involved in this movement myself (in seminary) and have been able to see from BOTH sides of the issue, now taking a firm stand against it. I frequently pray that God will keep me from falling back into this deception as it is very convincing, and so tempting in this chaotic world in which we live. I pray God will keep me faithful to His Word to the end. God wouldn’t need to warn us about deception if we weren’t susceptible to it. We best heed His warning.
Regarding Jenna’s comments about Tolle and Chopra, if you read carefully what she said,she does not say you are promoting THEM, but some of their techniques. I believe she has accurately depicted your message. As a Christian, Tolle and Chopra have nothing to teach me that I need. There are many fine Bible teachers who have Scriptural teaching to which one can refer if it is necessary. I agree that the techniques taught by Tolle and Chopra are based on their core beliefs (as Jenna says), so why would I or any Christian want to use them? They have nothing I need to learn. God has given us everything we need that pertains to life and godliness through His Son and in His Word.
I find that many modern pastors feel the need to make the Bible “relevant” by making references to popular teachers, Christian or otherwise , as though it is not relevant in and of itself. What we need is solid teaching straight out of the Word. This and obedience (including a life of repentance) are what is lacking in the lives of most Christians these days. It is no wonder there is so much spiritual confusion and despair in this generation. Most of this generation are enamored with this world and all it has to offer, including “Christian entertainment”. (I know whereof I speak as I have raised three teenagers just recently). They need first of all to get to know God through His Word, the only reliable method of knowing Him, and then fall in love with Christ once again, understanding the sacrifice He made, and from what we have been saved. Then they will have a strong mandate and witness in this world and be relieved of their confusion. The post-modern mindset that has infiltrated so many churches has done nothing to alleviate this confusion and despair so common amongst our youth. Sad to say, the remnant of churches faithful to God’s Word and dependent on His Spirit grows ever smaller. Even so Lord Jesus come.
Bonnie,
Thank you for your comments. I appreciate the fact that you have let Mr. Cavey know that the “alert blogger” is your daughter, but most importantly, that you have taken a stand for the truth in your denomination. This must have been a difficult decision. May God bless you for it.
Mr. Cavey,
In regards to your comment on your church stance on homosexuality, by singling out only one area of sexual identity, one could say you are being intolerant and exclusive of the other ones. For example, why not substitute the sexual “orientation” of homosexuality with pedophilia (or any sin for that matter) in the paragraph I previously chose to quote about your “third way” church? It would then read like this:
“We consider The Meeting House a pedophile-positive church. We do not preach that people must change their sexual age preferences in order to follow Jesus. Instead, we invite all people to change their spiritual orientation, toward God and their fellow human beings….”
Should we simply call the pedophile to live a holy life? Or should we show him the way to freedom through the gospel, repentance, and turning from his ways, to become a new creature in Christ and sin no more? Is God not able and powerful enough to heal and make each person whole? Are we to label people by their sexual preferences, or by whether they are saved or unsaved, walking in sin and darkness, or walking in the light?
Re: Your second point: “it is just not a biblical approach to rooting out heresy to judge a Christian teacher based upon who he quotes”
No one has said you are a heretic, Mr. Cavey. But there are concerns. It’s not only who one quotes, but who one promotes, condones or endorses that says a lot about one’s beliefs. Also, what you do NOT say (or warn about) speaks as loudly as what you DO say.
New Agers like Chopra and Tolle are not the only ones who are saying SOME good things within teaching that should not be swallowed. The pro-contemplatives you interviewed also say SOME good things but behind this spirituality is mysticism, which is in the same category of New Age spirituality and the occult, and should not be swallowed, condoned or endorsed by a pastor of the gospel. If part of their message is wrong, why take any of it?
See - “Can mysticism lead to God?” here:
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/mysticism-bennett.html
Regarding quotes, I might add that it is also who a person is endorsed BY that reveals what a person believes. Your book, Mr. Cavey (The End of Religion) has an endorsement on the back cover by Brian McLaren that says “I love Bruxy Cavey’s book because I think he tells the truth about religion.” Unfortunately, Mr. McLaren doesn’t even believe in the truth – he would rather redefine and reimagine Christianity than know the truth. His endorsement alone on any book is a red flag.
Those who don’t know the truth about Brian McLaren can read about him here:
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/brianmclaren.htm
Another red flag, Mr. Cavey, is the fact that you quote NT Wright and Marcus Borg in this book, as I read here:
http://www.virb.com/michaelspencer/blog/579729
Again, not sure why or how they are quoted, but from the review it sounds as if favorably. If so, this is also very alarming. Do you realize that they deny the foundations of the gospel?
I believe there is much here to be concerned about, and therefore, in spite of your defenses, the Gathering ‘08 Alert remains. I will not be there, but perhaps others who read here will, and can address these concerns with you personally.
Which brings me to my next point, and that is, in answer to your question, it is not relevant who or what ROM is. Who does the Bible say has the greater accountability? The one who publicly teaches and handles the Word of God, or the one who tests and examines the scripture daily to see if the things being taught are so?
“Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.” James 3:1
I pray you will re-examine some of these names and movements you are condoning and associating yourself with.
I would like to add a point regarding the belief that there is some truth everywhere that we can learn from.
An example of the direction that this mistake can lead to is the recent “Seeds of Compassion” event in Seattle where the Dalai Lama and emerging church leaders were speakers.
Tom McMahon of the Berean Call warns that “the emerging church believes all religions contain some “truth” that is “beneficial” for Christianity, and toward that end embraces practices such as yoga, mystical rituals, and even the teachings of ancient Catholic mystics.”
See:
‘InterSpiritual Day’ to feature panel of religious leaders
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=75585
As the 2 emerging church representatives at the Seattle event are both known to be involved in yoga and mysticism, it would not be surprising to see if this will soon lead to more interspiritual events on this slippery slope of compromise.
This is why a line must be drawn, and a warning sign posted: DO NOT ENTER.